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An IC Problem
There's been a lot of issues lately ICly with how people are reacting, or rather...not reacting. The setting in the Tavern shouldn't be completely relaxed... There's been an agreement among everyone in the regime that we shouldn't just enter as we please, which is why there's been a lack of appearance from certain individuals. Only enter if it has purpose or reason. However, it's also been noted that when there's been an important appearance, it gets treated as if it's nothing. Daniel has taken EVERYTHING away from the Heroes. He's even taken down the walls of Consequence. The area is no longer safe. So when Augustus enters. It shouldn't just be ignored. He's a threat. This is a man who has killed families, who will kill characters on the spot. It isn't supposed to be ignored. This is the reason Romulus has been using the void. He's trying to get people to react to Augustus and make it clear that he is for Daniel and therefore an important enemy.
Normally, I don't blog about stuff like this. But this has become an issue that needs to be taken notice of. If we keep going the way we have, then the storyline isn't going to get the proper attention it should be. When there's a threatening announcement, people are SUPPOSE to react. There's been an issue with that. People aren't reacting so everything has been lacking. It's just like with people switching sides so often. It's gotten to the point that it's being overplayed and not as original. Unless you have an actual reason to repeatedly switch sides, please try not to do it. We're really working to get everyone to pick a side and stick with it. By now, this should've already happened, hence all the missions. I love everyone on here and everyone roleplaying, but this has come to attention by a lot of people and just roleplaying doesn't seem to be making a big enough impact. Sorry for wasting a perfectly good blog, but please take into consideration everything the DM's have been working towards. They've done a fantastic job and they're trying their best to make this storyline utterly remarkable.
Love you all,
~Delily's player.~
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Comment by Delilah just now
I'm moving it to the forums, and I agree Tye. Thank you for your input. There's a lot of things that are needed to be taken into consideration.
Comment by Tye Sampson 13 minutes ago
Also, yeah, would have been better in the forums, Carol's right as usual.
Comment by Tye Sampson 14 minutes ago
Alright, I think there are a number of issues here that I think are confusing the situation.
Heroes: This dichotomy we have set up between 'Heroes' and 'Villains' is complete nonsense. It is a massive oversimplification which we use in order to make it easier for new players to become involved and engaged in the main story arc.
In reality however, there is no such thing as a villain. All villains think they are the good guys. Adolph Hitler thought he was the savior of the world and Daniel Plainview believes he is improving the universe. That means that there is no good, and no evil. We don't need goody two shoes characters to make the plot work.
However what we do need is people to play their characters logically. The Tavern is filled with vampires and demons, creatures that live by causing death and suffering to innocent mortals. Of course you aren't going to get a bunch of nice sweet lovelies in that bunch. But no matter how vile the character is, it should still be looking out for its own self interest.
If you lived on Hellifyno before, then chances are Plainview has killed all of your friends and family. Maybe he wiped out your clan, razed your village, or murdered your family. If you have any tie to nature then you should feel the pain of the planet. If you care about freedom you should hate him. And even if you don't, just living on Hellifyno means that your life is harder because of Plainview.
You don't need to be a good guy. You can be the biggest anti-hero asshole in the world. But you should still hate Plainview and everyone who works for him, because it serves the self interest of your character, and allows you to engage the greater story world that exists on the site.
Everyone's welcome to ignore the main story arc, but you're doing yourself a great disservice if you do.
Villains: It's true, you hurt your credibility a bit by coming into the Tavern to socialize with your friends too often. But I don't think that's such a big deal. You have to remember, the setting when that was happening was much less tense. We've upped the ante quite a bit with the death of the Silverhides and the razing of Consequence, so there is still plenty of time to recover.
The first thing I would say is that you have to let the Heroes win sometimes. I've seen some of the recent attacks and they've been great, but they almost always end with some sort of deus ex machina stepping in so the Heroes don't all die. Sometimes its Gaia, or Void, or Wyrd, or whatever.
Those are all great things, but it's also important to sometimes just let the Heroes win on their own. At the end of some victories you really want them to be invigorated, and feel like they accomplished something by themselves. That way, when you whoop em the next day, it's all the more dramatic.
The ultimate goal of the villains, in my opinion, is to make the Heroes feel something, something real and visceral. You want them to hate the regime, to hate your character, to the point that you can barely play them anywhere but some specialized villains room. It isn't easy to play a villain, and it shouldn't be.
One other thing I would do, is start targeting some of the neutral characters directly. Artemis says his character has no reason to be involved with the story, well its easy enough to give him a reason. You guys have beaten up on people like Rom and Erica plenty, and they hate the regime. So just, spread the hate a bit.
Overall Situation: I think we all have to keep some perspective as well. Right now is a very dark time for the Heroes. It doesn't look like it may be possible to defeat Plainview at all. It seems like the only reason Hellifyno hasn't been wiped out all together is because he doesn't have the time to bother with it. The universe is dying, and in visions of things to come, horrible days lay ahead.
It makes sense that people would be ambivalent about being Heroes. It makes sense that they would be afraid of the Regime generals, that they wouldn't fight back, that they'd tolerate the tortures, and even defend the villains in some cases. It's like a case of Stockholms syndrome in the general population.
What everyone has to remember is that it doesn't matter if your character is popular. If people hate you IC for attacking the villains, then you will have to stand as a lone Hero. The most important thing is to stay logical. For instance if Amarantha is too scared IC to attack the villains, then that's how you should play it. If she hates them and isn't scared, then she should go ahead and attack. Animosity is good, so is fighting, it keeps things interesting.
Ramble, ramble, ramble..
Comment by Delilah 1 hour ago
Honestly, what's sad is the only people who REALLY react are the Zagurians, Erica, and Romulus. Erica and Rom seem to be the top two that are really ganging up against the heroes. I know they seem untouchable, but the setting in the tavern is that there are troops outside. Rebel NPC troops. Meaning, that the villains - if they enter - should be surrounded by those troops at the moment they enter. Therefore, the heroes have a better chance fighting them than they realize. They're in their "home" so to speak. They're in their territory, which means they have the advantage of ordering troops to attack the villains if they enter. I agree with Wyld and Carol both. It looks like the heroes don't have enough incentive and we've been trying to knock that into the heroes throughout the past few missions. It just seems like nobody really cares when ICly, they should due to everything that has happened. I'm not asking for people to automatically change and start automatically reacting. It's a long process that's going to take time to accomplish. But I thought it would be helpful to post what HAS been going on and why they should be reacting. They have the entire rebel army at their hands whenever the villains enter. "We" are at their mercy if we choose to go IC on our regime accounts.
Comment by Romulisk 1 hour ago
I miss the Demaars and the Jareds, heck o.e Roms spose to be more of a anti-hero and most, yet i still get this feeling that he's more of a hero than most people. I dunno.
Comment by Dýrfinna 8 hours ago
Im heroic... :3
Comment by Carol 9 hours ago
Wyld has a really good point. We have plenty of nice characters but even they have their own interests and agendas and don't really give a damn about anyone else, sometimes purposefully avoiding the villains for this purpose.
A few genuinely heroic characters *would* be interesting but I doubt it'll ever happen.
Comment by zWz Wyld zWz 9 hours ago
Well, from my perspective... part of the problem is we really truly have NO HEROES in the classical sense. We have ambivalent anti-heroes who morally are closer to the villains then they are to anything else. And frankly, I don't think a real HERO would be able to survive because most of the patrons and inhabitants would eat them alive. We have the grey battling the black, the knight on the white horse would be the next blue plate special at Harry's and with good reason. In the past wars we had Heroes that stood out for heroic things... but over the course of the large arc of events... the world has gone darker... white is not white ... black has become inviting. Can the DM's and Storytellers switch up.... at this point it would really look contrived and phoney, Angels are acting more like demons and bullies. Demons seem to be more lenient, gods seem weak and impotent, insanity and self indulgence seems to be acceptable. What can be done? Hellifyno.
Comment by Dýrfinna 12 hours ago
Lets start a riot
Comment by Artemis Arkham 13 hours ago
Hmm, I'm hoping this is open for suggestions and an outside perspective. I'm not certain if it's the same with others, but both of my characters have come from a different reality, being sucked into Hellifyno with no knowledge at all of what's happening. Comidia finally gets the big picture but Arty certainly has no clue still. Even when asking aloud if there is a war going on, I got IC laughed at. That being said, even if Daniel himself showed up in the tavern Arty would just think him another patron. Granted, I haven't read every forum topic but I recommend throwing in the occassional description of current situations on a tavern billboard or something. If others are like me, they simply don't have an in character connection to care. Does that make sense? In either case, once Arty gets the clue or attacked by a Giovanni/Plainview type, he'll certainly be a responder. Comidia, is completely gung ho about taking out a Giovanni. xD
Comment by Carol 13 hours ago
I'm just explaining why people aren't fully getting it - because they're used to the villains chillaxing in the tavern and not wanting a reaction. It'll take a while for them to take the villains seriously, when they're people they were drinking and flirting with less than a month ago.
I agree, it would be nice if the Heroes and the Villains did treat each other as enemies a little bit more often. I simply believe it won't happen that quickly, if at all. Once people have an impression of somebody, it's difficult to get rid of that. For example, I could make Carol as mean and malevolent as possible but people would just treat her like a grumpy, cynical harmless girl because that's what they think of her.
In a similar way, they don't take the villains seriously and I doubt they'll start any time soon. Good luck though.
Comment by Carol 13 hours ago
I'm just explaining why people aren't fully getting it - because they're used to the villains chillaxing in the tavern and not wanting a reaction. It'll take a while for them to take the villains seriously, when they're people they were drinking and flirting with less than a month ago.
I agree, it would be nice if the Heroes and the Villains did treat each other as enemies a little bit more often. I simply believe it won't happen that quickly, if at all. Once people have an impression of somebody, it's difficult to get rid of that. For example, I could make Carol as mean and malevolent as possible but people would just treat her like a grumpy, cynical harmless girl because that's what they think of her.
In a similar way, they don't take the villains seriously and I doubt they'll start any time soon. Good luck though.
Comment by Lady Amarantha 13 hours ago
I am quite certain I have no place to offer my opinion here, being so new, but I shall anyway. My biggest problem is that the villains are untouchable. Much as I do and want to take their presence seriously, it just feels like suicide. It's maddening to just sit there, but it's worse to actually try to get up and fight an enemy you know you can even touch. Seniority matters, or seems to matter, more than characters here really, and I can understand that. My character isn't much of a fighter anyway, but I never feel like it's even possible to attack the villains when they appear. I, in fact, generally get the distinct impression that I'm supposed to butt out and let the more important characters handle it because nothing I do will matter much anyway and things are supposed to happen a certain way.
Also, the tavern seems like it is or was supposed to be a place of relaxation. And I know there is a storyline, and I love it, but there is little room for maneuverability and relaxation in a place, a world, that is largely meant for just that when the only place we can all go to meet and speak is supposed to be a place of darkness, despair, and growing hopelessness.
Sorry again if I'm missing the point or being stupid about it. I mean no disrespect, honestly.
Comment by Delilah 14 hours ago
I know, we all sat down recently and decided the villains needed to stop. We talked to Narry about it and a few other of the DM's and realized what needed to happen, that's why most of us have quit coming around. We're trying spike a reaction now and I don't think everyone's fully getting it. On both sides.
Comment by Carol 16 hours ago
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention. At one point, the villains were hanging around the tavern and socialising and flirting with the Heroes so frequently that in order to prevent it, our glorious administrator actually had to add an entirely new chat for the villains, just to give the villains a place to go where it wasn't so immersion-breaking.
It didn't really work, as you can tell from the Villain's Den constant population of zero but it's a point that I had to bring up. It's hard to blame people for not taking the villains seriously after having that attitude shoved into their brains over the past few months.
Comment by Carol 17 hours ago
This would've been better as a forum discussion. Blogs aren't meant to be OOC material. You're right that people don't react to any of the big bad villains unless they're Daniel himself.
I understand why they don't though. There have been months and months now of people from the Regime waltzing into the tavern just to talk with their friends and their lovers without anything to do with any mission. Anyone who tried to treat these villains like the villains they were was usually shut down by that villain's friends or people who insist that the tavern is "neutral ground" for whatever reason despite everything Daniel and his minions have done to tear it all down.
Perhaps now you want to be taken seriously or treated like the villains that you are. That's difficult for us to do, after months of watching Daniel's minions visiting the tavern for leisure and pleasure. You reap what you sow, there's no other way of saying it.
Replies to This Discussion
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EnhancedPermalink Reply by Daloki Kjellendragon on -
I think we got off the subject a bit. Delilah's specifically talking about our not reacting to the entrance of Regime villains, brought on by Augustus' appearance a night or two ago. I can only tell you why I don't react much any more. It started with Luna and Del, really. I used to attack them in the tavern, but of course it never went anywhere because of the no-kill rule. So it was like - oh, I see you, you're my enemy, I try to kill you, it doesn't work, you don't leave, I give up and go back to what I was doing.
Dal's reaction to the entrance of an enemy *would* be to attack. And there's no point to doing that. So what am I gonna do - especially if I'm deep in the middle of another conversation? Break that all off and glare at Gus? Start talking about how much I'd like to kill him? I'm sorry, but that's something I know isn't going to make any difference and I see no point in punting the ongoing convo aside for it.
Point #2 is that no matter how much of an enemy the person is, they never come in to do anything but talk anyway. So we have no reason to be wary.
My suggestion, therefore, is that when you bad guys come in, there has to be a threat. Have a nice talk and then suddenly hurt somebody or some people and then run. You can hurt NPCs, players or both. Do that a few times and oh yes, you'll get a response when you enter the tavern.
Then after you've established that your characters mean harm NOW to the people in the tavern, you come in with GUARDS and we notice and we're wary but we aren't going to attack you. Or you come in disguised. (And put (In Disguise) in your name so everyone knows they don't recognize you. It's ridiculous when Luna comes in and has to keep telling people she's in disguise.) And don't forget that for some of us, your scent will give you away unless you hide that, too.
I am really not going to attack Gus when he comes in, because I know (a) IC that he could slaughter me, and (b) OOC that I can't kill him, which would be my IC goal. So for me to pay attention to him, I have to feel like he's a present threat. Doing what I've outlined would establish him or any one of you as a present threat.
It doesn't mean you have to harm someone every time you come in. Keeping us off balance is fine. But if we don't feel threatened by you, you won't get the response you deserve, for the reasons I originally outlined.
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Permalink Reply by Delilah on -
Thank you for the advice Dal. We tried that tonight, somewhat, and it did provoke a reaction. <3
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ArtificialPermalink Reply by Carol on -
Dal's offered the best advice so far.
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HumanPermalink Reply by Blaze Ironarm on -
I can offer another suggestion. >_> Tis Xander. *Shrugs* Much to lazy to log on my other account on this dial up internet Im borrowing... Anyways. When I enter the tavern; my entrance includes there being guards firing at me or at least taking up their rifles and keeping eyes on me. I mean hell; Im one of the most obvious villians in this storyline right now. Kidnapped Erica; was the hand of Daniel's executioning line the other night; when people stopped responding to me; the soldiers started firing at me; and I at least end up bleeding every time before I leave the tavern.
Another suggestion; and I've seen this a number of times and even seen it brought up. You say you want a reaction; but when you get one its like you just raise your hand to swat away an insect. Yeah; Danny's bond gave us some power; but that doesn't make us untouchable. If someone's firing a barrage of bullets at you; you are not dodging every one of them. Hell; look at what's happened to Xan since he turned evil.
He lost his left eye; he lost his wings; if he keeps going IC I'll keep letting people kick his ass when they get an upper hand. It's a simple matter of keeping it interesting -FOR- them to react. What -I've- witnessed while lurking is people firing at Luna and simply "*Twists and turns and does a few backflips*" or something of the sorts; and she comes out unscathed. I've seen Del and Gus completely ignore people; Gus for instance noticably ignored a post or two from Sterling (I got the fallback for that btw). It's a simple matter of you all say you want a response; but when you get one you just use it to show off.
All I'm trying to say; NPC some rebel soldiers firing at you if you don't get a single response. If you -do- get a response; take a few bullets. It's not like they're firing Vardash at our asses or some god-killing bullet. Let them have a few near kills; or even a heavy hitting strike like I've given a number of people. Let them know we have weaknesses and they'll start to pick up arms against us again. If they think we're untouchable; all they're gonna do is try to make sure they stay out of sight from us.
At this point I'm just rambling but you get the point. So there ya go. ^-^ Hope it helps Del; and everyone else who sees this.
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MonsterPermalink Reply by Kel-ah/Augustus on -
Sadly, we've already gone over the whole ignoring posts thing. When I'm IC, I have many other epople either speaking to me or pming me. Because of that, I sometimes miss posts. I never intentionally ignore people or should I say heroes and rebels. I don't ignore anyone. That's all I really have to say for this topic. Thanks.
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CelestialPermalink Reply by Relina Vickers on -
I know; I didn't ever say it was on purpose. Just giving examples of things I've heard from other people and that's the first one that came to mind. Sorry if it seemed like I was trying to blame you or anything of the sort Gussy. I've fallen victim of the same situation numerous times. .-. Yeah..... Just; sorry bout that.
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Permalink Reply by Delilah on
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My main concern was only that they weren't being provoked into reacting. Daniel went IC last week - don't quote me on that, may have been several days ago - and no one attacked him. Instead, some of the "patrons" were joking around with him. So it's not JUST the regime, it was him as well and that was my concern that the storyline was falling due to lack of participation so to speak. That may have been horrible word choice.
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Permalink Reply by Delilah on
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Not to mention, when Ans did attack Augustus, I did bring Del IC and they started fighting. In the tavern, they were fighting and little to no people noticed. Azellia shot dDelilah aglare, telling her to get out. GC intervened. But other than that, no one seemed to really take notice or action. And on that note about the tavern being neutral. The tavern is in the middle of Consequence, rebel territory. The regime even took down the walls of Consequence on an earlier mission. So the tavern isn't meant to be neutral, it is rebel territory hence the villain's den. (Which isn't just for the regime. It's for any and all villain's.)
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EnhancedPermalink Reply by Blythe Van Buren on -
I'm new, but on one occasion that I can remember there were a few members of the Regime sitting in the room at one moment, and I believe it was Dal, Rom and I who attempted to get them out, and was successful about it. But no one else did anything about it.
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CelestialPermalink Reply by Daniel Plainview on -
I've only just noticed this thread... But I think Dal has said pretty much everything I would have said on the matter. I'll soon draw up a Blog which explains the current villains and what they do.
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Permalink Reply by Delilah on
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Thankies Daniel ^-^ Dal's advice has certainly helped since this was first posted. It's working better, more people are reacting. And thank you everyone who commented, everything helped me understand a bit better what to do and think.
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MonsterPermalink Reply by Beelzebeth (AKA "Erin") on -
While I agree with what you're trying to say, I prefer to just continue with whatever I was already doing. I very much dislike having to drop whatever crap is going on for a story event. Personally, I don't even pay attention to the story anymore... I completely lost interest when that event where anyone who wasn't at some celebration or whatever was to be killed happened while I was on holiday. (However, I do agree with what you're trying to say, as I said before)
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