How Roleplay Do?

This topic has 23 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 3 months ago by Desiree.

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    • #70060

      An introduction:

      Hi,

      You may or may not know me by name, but I wanted to start off by explaining you might have met me here, one time or another on many faces. I have been here off and on for a long time, from humble beginnings on the original Ning site, to new beginnings sprouted here on the new home for anything possible peeps. The reason I come here, the reason I keep returning I think, align with many of the people who are long time writers here.

      The freedom Rolepages brings to let us be imaginative and create.

      Over those years I’ve notice trends as many of you guys might have, and after recent discussions with other writers something I wonder keeps gnawing at me: With the differences in writing styles, post and etc, the question I have for each writer involved is. “What is their goal here?”

      Well, funny enough my goal more or less aligns with the goal set by the site in the “Getting Started” section; A section anyone new to the site should visit for summaries of RP etiquette, rules, meanings and more.

      “Roleplaying is an interactive experience where you collaborate with other members of the site to create a multidimensional storyline.

      This story can be told using videos and images, as well as through writing personal blogs, posting to the forum, or interacting directly in the chat room.

      The goal should not be to make yourself or your character look good, but should instead be to try and tell the best story that you possibly can along with the other members of the site. You should not think of yourself as your character, but should rather consider yourself a writer, telling the story of the character you created.”

      But there is one aspect I noticed is not delved into in this section of the site and I wanted to discuss it in this forum.

      *These thoughts, ideas and tips are opinions of my own and not per se that of Rolepages. I invite all my words here after to be debated, discussed and questioned in replies here as well as among each other. My goal in this post is to reinvigorate the creative flow as well as create a more inviting culture here to keep Rolepage’s alive and thriving for decades to come.*

      So, How roleplay do?

      I titled this discussion this way as inspiration from a popular movie commentator on YouTube, Lindsey Ellis, and to bring levity to what some might come to feel is an attack on their art, their craft, and their place here thus far. I want to share a philosophy I keep in mind when it comes to what I’m about to say next: I come here, or join other hobbies for the main basis to have fun. When I post these opinions and thoughts on how to improve roleplay interaction its with that in mind to do just that.

      SO LET’S HAVE FUN!

      Still I’ve noticed over the years, in the constant rise and decline of roleplay activity in our chat rooms and beyond. This place tends to divide between two different groups: Those that write para style with lots of descriptors and exposition; Then those that don’t use or lack of grammer,  don’t use popular writing constructs and lack the ability to give cohesive story at times which I like to call “new writers”. Though neither of these writers are not denied and should not be denied their place here on the site, it tends to cause a wave in decline in activity for those many in between these styles. I think a culture, a negative one so far, has been set. You must conform to either of these groups or you have no place here at least not for long. To me that’s sad because it takes from the growth and potential I have seen here years before. This is where I lead off to in my opinion a solution to this:

      Knowing which rp writing goes where.

      Chat Room RP: For this section I think this leads into the sites roleplaying goal I mentioned before. As of this post Red Sun Inn, Blue Moon Tavern and some ways but not all Otherverse needs to respect and enforce this goal at all times. These rooms are align with the sites canon that can be read through the “Stories” section of the site under Main Arc Story. Otherverse is the only place that can be placed outside of site canon. Even so the expectations of public chat rp should remain the same.

      These chats are like “outside your characters home/safe space” environments. What happens here might not be liked, encouraged or expected but if you come here, it is polite rp etiquette to at least respect them to happen (as long as they abide by site rules).

      If you are having a sobering conversation and a goof drunkard enters the inn, stumbles into your table you have the right to be disgusted, annoyed. Even take the conversation to a pm if the room as a whole is not aligning with the tone you’re setting; Ignoring all others around you sets a culture not only that interaction is wrong but if you don’t fit in their narrative, you’re not welcome to write in these rooms at all and that is not the purpose of these chats. These chats are not meant to cater to a small group. These rooms are for the site as a whole. The only time this culture is not applied is during site run events and there is usually one room that is designated for controlled (to a point) narration with DMs (see “Getting Started” to know about DMs for events).

      So what can you do if you find yourself wanting to write, to share but not have to risk unknown obstacles and outsiders to a narration you are trying to set? How does that roleplay do? Well this site has so much you can do!

      Personal Messages: PMs are a great way to role play with 1 or more people. Maybe you don’t want to write with others? Maybe you want to write a controlled narrative outside of the unknown anomalies RP Chat rooms can cause? This is a great alternative. I use it a lot to have one on one rps with one or even more people. That’s right though it can be temperamental at first, but you can invite multiple people to these pm’s. I have used it for private gatherings myself and love the new feature!

      Locations: If you go to “Locations” You can find so many worlds already built or build one of your own! It gives you the chance to roleplay outside of site canon if you wish, and to create your own worlds if you chose with it’s own genre, abilities and limits the world creator sets. Some people also use these as points of interest outside of Red Sun and Blue Moon still in the same canon as the site but a place maybe more suited to certain characters.

      Blogs: Have a creative story in mind? Want to share it with your writing buddies? Blog away. Yes, it can be a bit limited compared to the old site, some use outside writing tools then simply copy and paste their stories into blogs that stay featured on Stories for a little while (usually by date). You can copy the link to it and even share it in pm’s or ooc chat to get those feel good snaps you’ve been hankering from. Posting solo stories in Otherverse chat may sound tempting but it often leads to interested roleplayer’s wanting to join in. Being told to go away it’s private in a public chat room is not only confusing, but also again not inviting to potential amazing writers so Blogs are a great alternative!

      So this is my little thesis on “How Roleplay Do?” If you got this far and didn’t eye roll into oblivion or scoff off my ideas and suggestions, feel free to reply, add context or questions and even share this with newcomers to help them understand the way these rooms and site tools work as well as to help build this culture to promote fun, happy writing!

      Thank you.

    • #70425

      As far as I’m aware and I have been here a long time the main goal of almost every writer on the site is to make their characters look good. They want to be in the spotlight and they want to be the center of attention, whether they are the ‘new writers’ or old. This translates to people also wanting to look good or professional in ooc and ooc sort of ruins everything. Once someone knows you, it effects the way you’re treated. You are no longer able to play your characters without ooc interference dictating another player’s reactions ic. Onto another subject..

      Everyone in this place is out to get their characters in a place where everyone knows them because if you’re not in that position, you have no respect. You’re talking about a place where it’s okay to gang up on people for their opinions in ooc. You’re talking about a place where it’s okay to bad mouth the ‘new writers’ where they can’t see and therefore cannot defend themselves. You’re talking about a place where most writers believe they’re earning a part in the main story line when they attend events that are typically thoroughly planned out ahead of time with key players already knowing their roles.

      Effecting a change is going to take a lot more than ideas but the site is known for one thing: being able to write in a great variety of ways. Like you said there are blogs, the main chat, video/youtube RP (Also sort of LARP in my opinion), comments, private message and simple banter.

      Want to make this place fun, inviting, and to promote creativity?

      I don’t know how you’re going to do that with a place that’s set in its ways.

    • #70485

      I have to agree with multi With the points made. but ill add some of my own

      “Still I’ve noticed over the years, in the constant rise and decline of roleplay activity in our chat rooms and beyond. This place tends to divide between two different groups: Those that write para style with lots of descriptors and exposition; Then those that don’t use or lack of grammer,  don’t use popular writing constructs and lack the ability to give cohesive story at times which I like to call “new writers”. Though neither of these writers are not denied and should not be denied their place here on the site, it tends to cause a wave in decline in activity for those many in between these styles. I think a culture, a negative one so far, has been set. You must conform to either of these groups or you have no place here at least not for long. To me that’s sad because it takes from the growth and potential I have seen here years before. This is where I lead off to in my opinion a solution to this”

      This red sun newbies and blue moon para chat split is fairly a recent thing. It was not like his before But there were a lot of things going on in the background the past few years now {most of OOC things as  multi has explained before.}  A few factors to add. Many of the “tolerant” writers have up an gone do to OOC issues. Another factor is many new writers {again mainly recently} Have been doing some borderline TOS breaking things and instead of being helped they are either Trolled IC or they do get in trouble and posts are erased but no one tries to teach them. Again this in part of the lack of tolerance and also in part many of these new writers get angry or simply refuse any offer of improving or critique. So people have just given up trying.

      There was also a span off time where many of the most active people to the site up and left and the few that remained lost motivation or confide to their own groups. The main chats was nothing but new writers. I actually called this out and got chewd out for it as well.

      “If you are having a sobering conversation and a goof drunkard enters the inn, stumbles into your table you have the right to be disgusted, annoyed. Even take the conversation to a pm if the room as a whole is not aligning with the tone you’re setting; Ignoring all others around you sets a culture not only that interaction is wrong but if you don’t fit in their narrative, you’re not welcome to write in these rooms at all and that is not the purpose of these chats. These chats are not meant to cater to a small group. These rooms are for the site as a whole. The only time this culture is not applied is during site run events and there is usually one room that is designated for controlled (to a point) narration with DMs (see “Getting Started” to know about DMs for events).”

      This i have to disagree with Honestly ignoring something is fairly realistic. To use your own example. If a drunk character bumps into someone and a fight breaks out. if it is within my characters personality i will either join in or avoid it.
      In real life people would either watch or avoid a bar fight…same applies here even if its fantasy…hense suspended disbelief. A passing glance or noticing it is interaction enough but after that people,will go back their RP they were originally doing.  Chats cater to any size group but the Writers do not have to cater to everyone. I mean its an inn and tavern. If you go anywhere and see your friend you go to talk to a friend right? not a random person. Another thing its not viable to react to every little thing that goes on. That breaks the flow and there is no cohesion at all. And most people who hop in the chats tend to hop in with an idea in mind. groups are inevitable that just a social norm anywhere real life included.

      Should these groups force people out? No again there should be at least a little reaction and inclusion.   But not everyone will want to handle 4-5 extra people just showing up in a conversation. Especially if the character does not know them.

      Otherverse has always been a place to write seperate/private scenes and its been generally respected to wait to use it. PMs are not viable or more then 2 people and locations do not have chats unless you ask for it and given only one person on the site can add chats to location it tends to be a waiting game and often time never happens because well again its One person doing all the work and people forget or get too busy. Forums are hit an miss because the notification system is a lil weird and often times then no people forget the forum Chat is just easier. and more accessible

      And like what Multi said. People characters tend to have some sort of importance or do not this is often due to Event giving them such a position or some sort of feat done IC and sadly to say a bit of favoritism. at times

      Iniro for a time was reputable idk about now but when i played him as Siccy he had a reputation that preceded him but this was all though IC no OOC he earned it But not everyone wants to character build and just wants “be important” so thats why we end up with 300 gods  1000 demon kings and queens and so on and then they get ignored because 9 out 10 times its a new player just trying to get in peoples faces and go “FIGHT ME PEASANTS” or something like that so yeah….they get ignored.

      • #70599

        Multi character your words are exactly why I started this thread. I have had this coversation too many times and I hope my words and yours helps others who might inactively cause this culture to see how detrimental keeping things like this will be. My ideas/suggestions won’t change everything overnight but starting a discussion, opening the wound and exposing the infection is the first step causing change I think. I truly have hope everyone who has put so much effort here understand that without population non of their efforts will really prosper and the declining trend I’ve notice will only get worse.

        I would agree with you that the goal of the sight is what you say but it is literally written by the creator or whoever posted rules in Getting Started what I posted. That was a quotation for a reason I didn’t write that. I only know in my conversations I would join Wyatt Pad or RP Forums if I wanted to show off only and not come here to engage with others, to create a character to share their story and place them in a world even as chaotic as this one to see how that environment and the people their in mold and shape that story beyond just my own narrative. I agree many have seen this sight different. With their own self interest agendas, clique mentality and exclusiveness and I write this as a challenge to say that culture is wrong and that all who come here wishing to write, to be creative and to interact can be better than that.

    • #70490

      also just to add to this line

      ““If you are having a sobering conversation and a goof drunkard enters the inn, stumbles into your table you have the right to be disgusted, annoyed. Even take the conversation to a pm if the room as a whole is not aligning with the tone you’re setting;”

      You do not sent the tone for the entire room It is up to everyone in the room to set the tone. and they do not have to conform to the tone you want the room to have. This in of itself is kinda contradicting your point as if you want people to be more involved an active then fallowing one persons idea solely defeats the entire purpose of being free to write as you see fit. and break the freedom this site offers

    • #70513

      Honestly, my main point of contention is going to be against the suggestion that we shouldn’t ever ignore others in the main chats. There are several issues with this.

       

      First off, the idea that if we roleplay in a public chat room, that we are obligated to interact with every single person in that room. This not make sense from a storytelling perspective, as it breaks the flow and causes the writer to have to divvy every post to accommodate EVERYONE they are expected to interact with, and makes no sense for the characters themselves to do so.

       

      In addition to this, there is the suggestion that we “have the right to be disgusted, annoyed” if someone actively tries to annoy or harass in a main chat, either to agitate the character OR the writer, but that we are only allowed to address it through interaction or to leave the area altogether to avoid it. In the several years I have been on the site, the main mindset has been when someone is trolling you, you don’t feed the troll. Admins themselves have told me to just ignore it and go about my business.

       

      No one should ever feel obligated to either indulge someone who is harassing them, or be forced to leave. Not when the simplest solution is to just ignore it and carry on with their writing, which is what they’re on the site to do.

      • #70630

        I will try to give a better example Iniro and Magicia thanks for addressing this. I merely didn’t want to get too preachy on my first post unless it was addressed.

        IMO proper RP Chat engagement:

        Nestley: She stares at Edgar, eyes spilling with tears. “That is not true and you know it. I have been there for you, I have always been there for you. Why can’t you humor the idea that what she said, what we all said has some merit? Are you so stuck in your old ways?”

        Roley Pickard: The Drunkard enters the room barely able to stand. As such he zips to the left then to the right crashing into the table where Nestly and Edgar sat. “Apologies! Apologies!” He giggles to himself with a hiccup.

        Edgar: “Do you think ganging up on me, telling me I am a monster and giving me no option was really going to work. I have done my damnest to do what is best for us…what is best you…” He reaches out for her hand just as a drunkard rocks their table. His hand moving to the drinks set upon it with tense agitation. A glare is given to the man, no words spoken before he trained his eye back on Nestley and focused back on their conversation.

        Impolite RP Chat engagement:

        Nestley: She stares at Edgar, eyes spilling with tears. “That is not true and you know it. I have been there for you, I have always been there for you. Why can’t you humor the idea that what she said, what we all said has some merit? Are you so stuck in your old ways?”

        Roley Pickard: The Drunkard enters the room barely able to stand. As such he zips to the left then to the right crashing into the table where Nestly and Edgar sat. “Apologies! Apologies!” He giggles to himself with a hiccup.

        Edgar: “Do you think ganging up on me, telling me I am a monster and giving me no option was really going to work. I have done my damnest to do what is best for us…what is best you…” He reaches out for her hand grasping it tightly. “I’m the only one willing to do what is best.”

        Nestley: As he took her hand the tears fell. She shook with tension, hesitance, then made her choice. Slowly, she pulled away.

        I’m not sure if that helps you agree really but to me you don’t have to humor or bring someone into your roleplay. But if a writer is engaging with the world you are in, and they are not trolling/breaking the rules posted in Getting Started I think it is only right to acknowledge that the world is still going on around characters involved. I myself have run into environment interrupting and I have taken it in stride, in both positive and negative reactions. Both inviting it and cautioning against. I don’t place rule breakers/trolls in the same light of these interactions. The culture now doesn’t banish or dismiss poor rp riling or rule breaking. It literally pushes out everyone and those of us that have been here long enough are often very good at navigating through interruptions. Some might say that fast pace active rp chat rooms are not places for long exposition and filler in replies and I am of the mind to agree if you can’t take interruptions in stride then an active live chat might not be the place for you and that PMs would be better suited because why be there otherwise? That kind of storytelling holds no gain to the room, save to show it off to others in ooc conversations for self praise and again, that is not the goal set by the site and many others to keep this site populated and thriving.

        As for my intent in you “you have the right to be disgusted, annoyed” It was in reference to you don’t have to be friendly to everyone, include everyone and it is not what I was saying. As mentioned before rule breakers and trolls can actively be set right by giving them no space for engagement but as I have seen many times that rule has been abused too freely. Great writers, new writers have been actively ignored completely as if there are two different parallel universes in the same room while trolls by those same isolating people are beaten, “threatened by gods” and other things to no avail. Again as experienced writers I trust you and others can tell the difference and if you bring your roleplay to RP Chat with no intention of engaging with just the writers you want but not the world there in, why be there? There are  so many avenues available to keep you happy and keep this site growing, trending and not excluding more possibly great writers to add to the lists of blogs, to join events and help the site.

        Magicia no one should be forced to leave is so very true and I implore you to discuss and think on it. Have you or others in one way or another forced others (not trolls, not rule breakers) to feel forced off the site by making them feel excluded from the sites public domains?

    • #70613

      I wanted to wait for some replies before I added anything.  I read this and wanted to share it so thank you guys for coming on and checking it out and starting a conversation I believe is necessary for this site to have.  So I want to tell you guys participating in this…Thank You!

      Reading these replies it seems like one of the bigger factors…which I agree with…is dealing with OOC chat that seems to bring familiarity to certain writers which brings comfort and perhaps some favoritism, that is just speculation though…for the most part though it would seem to lean that way.  I don’t mind knowing the writers…one reason why is due to understanding who they are and knowing that they aren’t being malicious by their posts, since there are times it could be hard to decipher that.  I in no way believe this is something that should be used to give anyone an edge in any way on here.    This is the where some of my concerns come.

      There is a huge lack of resepect while RPing IC on here.  This comes from new writers as well as the more “veteran” writers.  Where I can understand what you’re saying about not acknowledging everything and everyone in a public chat, it’s an elitist and arrogant attitude to believe that you should just outright not have any type of acknowledgment.  I’m not saying to bring them into your story…not at all.  But having an understanding of the room and the public nature of what you’re doing is respectful to others.  You want just a small clique…you can have a multi person PM…it is a possible.  If you’re arguing that face you’re just looking for your snaps and dopamine fix from those who want to kiss the all mighty feet of those who believe themselves to be the “better” role players.  This is again should not be the reason why we’re here.  We should be here for fun…and to tell those on here who aren’t you or your clique that their fun is wrong…well…that’s the wrong part.  What you want to do is great but that same respect should be had for all on here.

      I do believe personally that there is a “leadership” issue and organizing issue among the site as well.  There’s no rhyme or reason for anything.  No organization to be able to follow any of the “Main Arcs” of the site.  So we’re all here creating our own chaos yet doing so with people seemingly “interfering” with everything we’re doing.  This shouldn’t be the case.  This is essentially the same as having a group at a TTRPG with multiple others doing different TTRPGs, but then moving the tables together and everyone talking over each other.  We’re not using the same rule set, the setting in  your minds are different, the themes, the ideas, all the way to the experience of each person as well as the main point to his threat…”What are you here for?”  We’re all here for different things and it won’t work with the amount of egos and disrespect that flows through here on a regular basis.  This is player issue, but “leadership” problem.

      • #70635

        Yes! Thank you all arounds for engaging and letting this discussion be had. Had everyone chose to ignore it I sadly would have been of Multi Characters mindset that all hope is lost. I believe the more involved writers of this site can take this critique and better map and define the site for the better. As for anyone new reading this, I would hope you see this with the light that as this site grows, you with it, that speaking up if you wish is not ignored and this these talks can help you grow as a writer, with new and varied perspectives to weight in your writing and post. Might save us from another troll commonly lashing out in anger at not being seen.

        The leadership issue is a tricky one. No one can be here 24/7. Most admins are volunteer and the stress involved with small squabbles can be tiring. I wouldn’t take the job and I respect those who do trying their best. The “Wild West” way of things now has it’s negatives and that is why I address creating a culture, a more positive one than now, to have the site more or less self govern themselves. It is why not just anyone can take over Hellifyno on a troll whim but at the moment it is why the same few people with many, many accounts are the only ones active here. I think if we can establish more inclusive rules to RP Chat rooms, while showcasing other ways to rp and interact otherwise when a goal of a scene does not jive with the unknown chaos the chat rooms can bring. This will really ramp up the traffic here and add more fruitful creativity.

    • #70638

      I have to take issue with a lot of your statements. It won’t mean I’m right and you’re wrong, only that we have different ways of viewing it. But I hope people will at least consider my viewpoint.

      For example, you said, “If you are having a sobering conversation and a goof drunkard enters the inn, stumbles into your table you have the right to be disgusted, annoyed.” Someone has addressed this, but I’d like to comment as well.  I would say, rather than “you,” that your character has the right to be annoyed. But it’s far better roleplay if you deal with the situation in character. Things are going to happen that you don’t expect. Instead of making a big deal about it in PMs and berate the player, push the drunk away, punch him, yell at the imps or hobgoblins to kick him out, etc. If he continues to annoy you, you can PM the player and ask that he stop, preferably without hostility. It’s not as if someone walked in and shot someone indiscriminately. Your character becomes more real by reacting to the interruption.  If the obnoxious behavior does not stop, then the person is a troll and should be ignored.  If an admin is present, speak to the admin at this point, not the player.

      You said, “There was also a span of time where many of the most active people to the site up and left and the few that remained lost motivation or confined themselves to their own groups. The main chats had nothing but new writers.” Yes. This situation broke my heart so much that when the second group of experienced players simply vanished, I was gone for a few years because my entire storylines were gone and I had become seriously depressed.  You went on, “I actually called this out and got chewed out for it as well.”  I am sorry you were chewed out.  There was no call for that to happen.

      It’s important not to be too simplistic about the differences between the Red Sun and the Blue Moon. You said, “This red sun newbies and blue moon para chat split is fairly a recent thing. It was not like this before.”  Today, not all (though admittedly many) of the Red Sun players are newbies who may have poor spelling and grammar skills and who may still be learning to roleplay, and not all the Blue Moon players write paragraphs.

      That said, paragraph RP is newer. I utterly loathe it, will not do it, and ignore people doing it. It is too slow for me. I do not want to wait and wait and then read and read before any more action can happen.  So I do my own thing, shorter posts.  Some people call me a one-liner and look down on me for it, but that is their problem, not mine.  I will not wait for a para writer to finish.  To me that kind of writing is more appropriate to a forum than a chat room.  But since it is what people want to do, they have a right to do it, but they do not have a right to expect me to go along with it.

      You said, “Another factor is many new writers {again mainly recently} have been doing some borderline TOS breaking things and instead of being helped they are either Trolled IC or they do get in trouble and posts are erased but no one tries to teach them. Again this in part of the lack of tolerance and also in part many of these new writers get angry or simply refuse any offer of improving or critique. So people have just given up trying.”

      This absolutely should not happenNew players should be helped.  Only true trolls who continue acting out should have their posts removed (except during a mission or event, when removal may happen for more than one reason).

      I ran into a situation recently where someone jumped on me for one ooc post in the Red Sun.  I was told that NO ooc posting was allowed.  This just is not true.  Sometimes one has to make comments that are appropriate for all to read, such as (X character has left) or (that is not an auto-hit), especially because I’ve found that people have been given incorrect information about what an auto-hit is and is not.  (A kitten pouncing on someone’s feet is NOT an auto-hit – I was stunned, then laughed myself silly when someone made a fuss about that!)

      Well, this got very long and I’m going to stop.  If anyone has read this far, just know that for awhile we had players here who were telling people rules that were actually not rules, and this caused a great deal of friction.  If I am there (Echo), though admittedly I am not there often enough, ask me in PMs if you are unsure.  Weary Wanderer is another good person to check with, as well as Dragon Teers, of course.  There are others but I don’t know how often they are playing these days, either.

      For now just know that brief OOC pertinent to the roleplay is permitted, and that having a drunkard stumble into your character without doing more than giving you a bruise does not constitute on auto-hit.

    • #70642

      Desiree, I didn’t see your clarification about the drunkard, so my comments about that aren’t relevant. In your first post you appeared to be saying the exact opposite of what you said in the clarification post.

      • #70651

        I can understand you might see inconstancy at first. The first more summarized version was in fact assuming the drunkard is not a troll. That the character is well fleshed out and presenting a creative introduction to the room. That I guess might be part of the problem. How one sees a “troll”. Rule breaking is cut and dry. Trolls might be more a perspective thing. If someone was to come in. Engage and not take cues, actions or in actions under consideration I call that a troll. Someone writing with intent to engage but accept negative or positive reactions, take note of cues of their presence being invited or uninvited is signs of a creative writer using the environment and for lack of a better word, “striking out” if that interaction doesn’t go as desired.

      • #70662

        Echo I love that you in essence are in accord with me. React to the drunkard then dismiss if they are indeed a “troll” or rule breaking but as I have seen it this is not the case. It is merely a power for dominion of a public chat pushing out new writers and writers that don’t “fit in with the clique.” It is why my post offered many suggestions to those who would not allow reaction to the world around them in RP Chat rooms. I am still of the strong belief that public chat rooms here are for all and the inconsistency of groups ignoring the other keeps the rooms from really coming to life with activity like they use to. Para writers might slow down that progress and that seems to be an opinion of more than one person. I simply write more detail when I am compelled but minimize it in RP Chat rooms for the better flow Iniro spoke of before. Again it just to me comes back to why are you writing there? If it is to contribute to the room, the public room for public engagement and interaction is slow lengthy post excluding anyone save those in your immediate storyline doing that?

        I don’t want to only single out para writers though. I have seen this attitude across different kinds of writers as well which is why I tried not to make it a rant about just that, though it is not something I did not notice Echo. I have a thesis idea to present I think to call “Substance over Context”  I like having these discussions but I don’t wish to annoy people merely share perspectives and add to the overall quality of the site.

        As for teaching new writers. Sometimes people learn with guidance, sometimes it takes a tougher approach of non involvement with the character. That is where I had agreed that no, no one has to interact positive or welcoming to every interaction. Some people just want attention, negative included with no desire to grow. I think where sight is loss is lumping anyone in who doesn’t fit in your writing style as a troll comes off uninviting not to their group but the site itself and with no one there challenging this culture they’re right. It’s why I wrote my original post for address the issue with current writers while giving insight to new writers trying to find their niche and suggest positive ways to interact with the site and the writers in it.

    • #70745

      I’ll be darned if I can figure out how to reply to a reply. Anyway, I probably read your original post too fast, so I’m glad we had many points of agreement.

      I have always, from day 1 here, tried to help newcomers – and people helped me as well, even though I wasn’t a total n00b. An example: Recently I had a part to play in the current story arc (Punishment) by foreshadowing the return of Faltering Bright. In the Red Sun, there were some short attention spans and some people who (rather rudely) went ho-hum, but also some who joined in. For those last, I did my very best to tell them, in PMs, some things longer-time players would know about how events work, to make them (both in chat and in PMs) feel welcome to join in, and to find out something about their characters so my character could know how to interact with them later on. Why don’t more people do that??

      A big problem was that some of the other players present weren’t just not interested in the Event but actively tried to discourage others from having any interest. BOY, did that make me angry, but I kept the anger to myself (not easily) because it would have been counterproductive to let it out. If that’s the way they wanted to be, I wouldn’t be able to change their minds. Maybe it was in character for them, I don’t know. But players and/or characters like that are detrimental to good roleplay and to the site. They contribute nothing.

      Anyway, I’m glad we’re on the same side. And I apologize to the rest of you that I haven’t read all the other replies, my time is limited.

      • #70954

        The reply system, the forum system is so new to me! I have used every other facet on the site mainly the old site except the forums. A little odd how they categorize it and I think the site improves as we do and give feedback on these things. I have been in the past to many events that I think you have had a hand in. Hearing you were part of this one actually had me giving the potential of the event great praise. I am one to caution friends new to the site (some invited through games some I meet here) to be aware events can be…chaotic, but often fun. I warn of the fact that it is hard for the DMs to reach everyone, they may catch the sight of names they know first so try not to feel outcast just because you’re not replied to. To look at evens as a passenger/commentator reacting to what is being presented and try to enjoy the ride.

         

        I think firstly many old or new players hesitate to join events for that same chaos and lack of acknowledgement and agency in events. Most people want to be the main characters of the scenes here if not supporting side character and Events are a great test of that. The only other reason I’ve seen hesitance is in the stories being told. Many times at least of recent few years the agency of joining events has greatly diminished. While this gives more control to DM’s and those who help plan and guide the events, it also alienates those participating when end the in all their efforts are dashed to canon taking over. It’s like playing A TellTale Game. They say your choice matters but no how many different choices you make they always override certain points making many choices you hoped to encourage to see something changed  by their characters to mean nothing really.  I could go on a tangent about this, write a whole topic on this if you’d like to share your knowledge with me. If people could see more the inter workings of creating, organizing and hosting site wide events, while simultaneously DMs hearing critiques of writers experiences how they wish events to be improved to rejoin them, I think it could be educational for all.

    • #71444

      I feel at the end of the day, people are going to have their fun the way they want to have their fun.  I agree with almost everything said above in terms of common sense.  There SHOULD be places where the things you’ve mentioned should be applied, and there are.  There  are many forums built and maintained on these ideas, and ideals.  However, I feel that there should also be places that are like this one.

      People should very much have the freedom to play as they wish, whether it is seen as uppity and rude to some.  Whether one likes it or not, people should have the right to ignore what they want as well, whether it is in good graces or not.  As long as no one is being openly harassed, forced to do something they don’t want that is not within the rules and guidelines, or making the majority of those gathered in any given setting super uncomfortable, I don’t see any reason to change it.  Whether it is something that annoys the living crap out of me, or not.

       

      As for Echo’s views on force hits, I disagree.  Force hits, or forced actions, whether they make sense or not are still forced hits, and forced actions.  Bumping into someone’s table, or even a cat pouncing on someone’s feet should always be fluid.  The cat should be aiming to pounce on someones feet.  A drunkard should be aiming to bump into a table if it’s one that another character is directly sitting at.  They should have the option to move the table, or move their feet.  They can always follow up and say that their characters did those things and nullify the ‘forced’ aspect of the prior post, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that the prior post was a forced action on the other player’s part.  Any action that would force something upon another’s character, be it a small action or a large one is still forced.  Many aren’t bothered by the little things, but everyone has the right to be bothered by it if they want, no matter how silly it may seem to others.

       

      This place, as it is, turns a lot off, but it also draws in others, and they thrive in it.  They have every right to have a place like this they can thrive in, just as anyone else has a right to play in a place that caters to their own styles of play, and styles of ethics when it comes to play.  I’ve seen it bother some that there’s a crap-ton of publicly displayed affection that goes on in the Red Sun, and yeah, that stuff can get real annoying, but so what?  As long as they aren’t outright doing porn, or having actual sex there, or doing things that go against the rules, they’re fine.

       

      What it all comes down to is how individuals want to have their fun.  If they want to stick to cliques and act elite, then they should be able to do that.  There are also ways to get yourself included in things that are going on.  I’ve had people PM me and say “Hey, mind if I bring in a character and join your particular scenario in the the chat?”, and I’ve agreed, or disagreed depending on my mood.  There are times when I will wholeheartedly accept any and everyone into an open scenario with my characters, and there are times when I don’t feel like it.  There are times when I do it anyway because I wanted to be decent.  There are times where my character will outright ignore another because I simply don’t feel like interacting.  If they PM me about it, I’ll explain myself.

       

      Everyone has their different reasons for playing the way they do.  For some it can come across as rude and noninclusive, and that’s fine.  But they still have the right to play how they want, whether you see it as a problem and don’t like it, or not.  As I’ve said I completely understand the notions presented, however I just believe that there should be places like this, just as there should be places like the place you want this one to be.  It’s sad that there are those who I’ve loved playing with over the years have gone away.  I’ve taken my own breaks when something I don’t like has become so prevalent I couldn’t enjoy myself the way I wanted, but them’s the breaks.  Sometimes I look at the Red Sun, or Otherverse, and I shake my head and wonder just what the hell is going on.  But they are having fun, they are enjoying themselves.  So no matter how much it may annoy me at times, it doesn’t matter because they are having THEIR fun.  Same thing applies to other similar matters and situations.

       

       

    • #71635

      Well, having read and seen things from both sides of the table, and seeing things on each side of the argument that I enjoy and agree with… I think I feel comfortable adding in my thoughts:

      This site can be a wonderful place for growth of everyone, the one liners, multi-para, the ‘twitter method’ like I try to do more often than not with my play… It’s fun to see what people come up with and how they bring their characters to life. I’ve been on and off the site since 2012, usually staying in the background up till 2017, and then took another break for a while. I will say break as that is what it was intended to be. I’ve seen cliques come and go, I’ve seen things I don’t agree with entirely take place. I’ve had arguments with my own friends with how they treat other players (often, very very often). When I did admin I did try to get other people help when I could, messaging new people or asking them what kind of things they liked doing. I liked learning what made people tick and what inspired them so I could better help them.

      Now I came back and things seemed ‘bleak’. I won’t deny my own part in issues in the past, and I even won’t deny my connection to cliques. I say cliques because I was in multiple circles on this site, and despite how everyone wishes and thinks we are all one melting pot, you do form a clique even if you don’t notice it. I’m sure all of us have those failings and short comings of not interacting with someone for some reason or another, hell back on Ning, I was straight up ignored often, but I accepted that I might not have had a part in that person’s story. You should always try to work for mass inclusion, but just because at that time you aren’t, that isn’t necessarily a bad thing either. We all have our own ‘styles’ and our own ‘rulesets’ (I for one don’t like RPing with a copyrighted character more often than not, I prefer playing with someone’s OC), and that isn’t bad either. Actually the site owner does encourage that freedom as well.

      When it comes to events, more often than not there is already a decided important being, that is just an issue at the fundamental level, but it can be worked on and has gotten better more and more during event lines. But again that is because cliques will exist for you even if you don’t want to imagine that it does, and you will subconsciously pick favorites or want these pre-predicted outcomes. When I have someone asking to write with me in Out of Character, if it’s in the main chats or could be considered canon for my character and not a private stand alone ‘what if’ scenario, I make it clear I don’t like to pre-plan but prefer to see the way things go, it makes it seem more organic.

      And now on the idea of ‘automatic actions’, I don’t tend to agree with them if they are not done by a DM for reasons of keeping a story coherent or moving forward properly. A person should have final say on anything that happens /to/ their character, but in an event they do acknowledge that the story will dictate otherwise.

      To shift the paradigm will take a lot of us to change how we think and act and behave, and will require an amount of flexibility that most of us don’t currently have. It isn’t impossible, I have seen times (Ar’Elis saga mainly) that a lot of people had a mass amount of collective writing. But there was a constant reminder of what was going on, and a heavy push for the storyline all over. It gave a structure that isn’t usually there, so people have to act accordingly. There is a paradigm change in RP as well that is very discouraging, and it is the more recent increase of the ‘us vs them’ mentality between single line writers, multi-para writers, and even those of us in the middle ground. I tend to rp as if i was writing a post on twitter to limit how much I put more often than not but to make sure I get the important info out. But I also think that each style has its place. When you’re talking (and this is done in novels often) you don’t always need a whole paragraph, one line dialogue is a common technique especially if the characters aren’t doing much but talking, and then when setting a scene or causing a major scene change or being a DM interacting with multiple players at once, that is when paragraphs can be useful in large group writing. So this also tends to an issue of inculsion based on the style you want to remain in, and flexability in style can actually be a boon for being able to include more people.

      A sad thing that I also saw often in the past was whenever initiatives were started to help educate people or get people a chance to increase their skills in writing, it always got either mocked or discouraged. “Well we tried this before, so it’s going to fail for you too!” mentality is huge for it. We even had a ‘classroom’ chat on the list for a bit so if people wanted to practice something, get a better understanding, or have something explained someone could go in there and work on it. The issue came that it was mocked, openly in the chat by not only newer players but veterans who would actively complain about the habits of new players otherwise. I constantly told people if they don’t like how new players play, play with them. Inspire them. So what if they aren’t ‘giving you enough’ that means you can fill in the blanks as you need to, and if you’re experienced that shouldn’t be a problem.

      Inclusion has been an issue on here for years, cliques will always come and go, and change and mold… what is needed for us to make it better is flexibility and understanding.

    • #71644

      Oh and an addendum to my original point: There may always be the chance of someone trying to do a hostile or ‘bait’ action as well, and sadly that happens more often than I’d like to see, both in and out of character.

    • #71689

      This thread is opening up some interesting facets of conversation.  The one thing I’m not seeing is a good solid rebuttal to the main focus to the main subject matter.  No one….NO ONE…is disagreeing about people having fun or their fun on here.  It’s mainly showing the utilization of this sites full potential and people really not exploring it in loo of just wanting to show of their “skills”; whether it’s to show off how impressive their character (OC or Not) or how amaziees they’re writing prowess is compared others.   The fun aspect to this is not in contention.  I also believe that it’s a misunderstanding, misreading, or just perhaps your fee fee’s are hurt because you feel you’re one those being singled out.  This is not the case.

      Perhaps I have no dog in this race.  I’ve only been here a few months only use one account and only just recently tried my hand at an event.  What I see…and what seems to be the actual point of this thread…is not just an inclusion to your story, which is fine by the way no is saying to forcibly put people into your story with your group, it’s the complete lack of understanding that its a public chat.  You don’t want interlopers trying to be apart of your group which they must find interesting, Okay build your community of people you do want to play with so you won’t have that issue.  Why is this such a hard thing to do?  I keep seeing this push back on why they shouldn’t have to…and you don’t…but really ask why.  Is it because the public room is some sort of sacred area for your group to meet up because its the only neutral territory for your kind to be? Or is it simply you can’t handle people not knowing how awesome you and your character are and people better recognize?  People don’t go out to public areas not have to deal with things.  You go to a bar its possible you’ll be dealing with patrons of that place, whether you want to or not.  Ignoring them can work, but you also acknowledge them in some way at the very least.  Sometimes you just don’t have a choice in the matter in a public area.  In an RPing world with a public chat why is that different?

      How things are going when you ignore what’s happening is the same as when you’re talking with someone but they aren’t really paying attention or listening to you, they’re simply just waiting to talk.  Everything be said from one side is like Charlie Browns teachers to them.  They believe they are the only one that matters.  That’s not true in life or in RP.  Ignoring is more than simple conversations too.  Ignoring something falling on your head, giving you a little scratch, or something effecting the environment is poor RP and understanding of how things work.  Not to mention a lack of respect.  Really, that’s what it comes down to, RESPECT.  We all believe we have awesome characters, regardless of how long they’ve been played and blah, blah, blah.  That’s a moot point.  We should respect one another as we interact in the public chats as well as in events.  You want to be horrible and talk shit in private go right ahead!  No one is controlling that.  Outside of the conduct of having respect for one another, which means having open dialog and conversations even with those you may deem unworthy or troll either openly or in PMs.

      Trolls are going to exist everywhere, they are the keepers of the internet bridge and have been around to just be contrary for years before the internet.  We called them “Shit Talkers”.  People who said things and did things just to annoy people but in essence couldn’t back anything up.  I get the “don’t feed the trolls” but I know there are people on this thread who are treated with the same thoughts as a troll, but don’t see themselves as such.  Because in essence they aren’t.  You don’t know until you have that dialog with them.  Pushing people out because you yourself deem them one without evidence is again being disrespectful.

      Here at the end let me add this as well.  Just because we mention certain types of writing; ie para-writers or mulit-para-writer, or even Twitter writer….whatever it is.  This may not pertain to you if you fit in that style.  If you are acknowledging things and truly RPing even if you’re not adding newcomers every time (again no one is saying to do that) then the problem isn’t you or how you write.  The problem lies in making those who may be new and trying to venture forth into a new way of expression with RP or just for writing, coming on here and not finding a place because the lack of respect shown due to whatever reason people are coming up with.

      But what do I know, I’m just one of the new ones that came in to a public RP chatroom finding those who shared my passion and built something…even if it was just for a moment while bringing others in and sharing within their stories.  Anyone could come in…well, on my side any way. It has helped IRL situations become less stressful and helped pull me out of the mire I was in.  There are stories to real people here respect should be given and earned to keep it.

      • #71740

        I feel what I put may not have been put out exactly how I wanted it to, I’m sorry for that. My main subject matter was, it’s possible, but for a lot of people the flexibility isn’t there. They want that comfort of writing partners, or even style. And when there have been outreach before to help strengthen the community as a whole and break down those barriers, there has been conflict from it or those ideas have been actively mocked. I try to respond or interact to my surroundings as much as I can, but I will admit to laser focusing at times. When it comes to actions happening to your character, this comes to those paradigms that happen. Some people believe anything that directly interacts with your character’s well being (an attack, an environmental hazard falling on them, someone bumping or affecting something that is ‘their’ prop at the time) shouldn’t be automatic, as Hades put. We should be given the chance to react to the actions or events that others put, and react realistically. And again for realistic actions or acknowledgement, in the real world when in public areas the most you might give is a quick a glance to something, before moving on, which can again be a viable thing.

        And I do apologize for bringing a large thing on writing styles, just touching on the mentioned dichotomy and ‘us vs them’ of styles from the original post.

        I do agree a lot of people go into public rooms just to show off something quick, which for events is a bit more excusable than someone who just wants to do the whole ‘i’m great and i want you to know!’, especially if they are going on about their prowess in something but then shy away from any challenge for it. But to get on the main thing, for this site it all comes down to how the individuals choose to interact, since we don’t have a solid ‘this is how you must do it!’, and that’s part of the beauty of Pages is that you can play how you want, as who and where you want. But there does, in recent years, seem to be a bigger failing at inclusivity or interaction with others. At this point what is needed is people discussing it, policing their own actions when it comes to negativity, and remember that we are all here to have fun.

      • #71851

        @Tearlach;  Let me first say what I put up wasn’t towards any one individual here.  You also don’t need to apologize for your opinion and observations on here.  That’s what this is for is to have an actual conversation about all the situations happening on this site.

        As far as the “auto hit”…reacting is fine, but ask yourself why you have to.  Why do I have to not allow a cat to land on my foot?  Does it show how inferior I am compared to the cat?  NO.  This huge problem with not allowing any type of hits is all ego.  I’m not saying let them kill you, maim you, or out right destroy you.  But respecting the powers of others characters isn’t a bad thing.  Again, this is all revolving around RESPECT.  Absolutely needing to be able to not be affected is complete hubris.  IRL we can’t avoid certain things why here?  Just so you can feel powerful?  If the answer is yes…again, see the ego problem.  I get the reasoning and how some folks word things…but you don’t have to allow their end result, but respect goes a long way with folks and helps those who don’t know how to write that out properly hopefully learn new ways of writing to become better.

        This is something I believe we still lump into mutual respect.

    • #71908

      Thanks for you input Tearlach, it is nice to hear the perspective of all our various writers and their experiences throughout. I think as mentioned the issue of feeding trolls, taking hits, auto hits is a good one but as Kade mentioned that was not the direction of this specific topic at the beginning. There are less hostile, and legitimate interruptions and environment changes that are just as ignored as if they were indeed trolling for lawls. I agree to a point everyone has their “groups” but I was in conversation just yesterday and pointed out. For one month of this character here interacting in Blue Moon she made a “clique” of sorts. But how I respect the uses of the rooms; Using PMs for more personal involved post; A group pm for a Ladies Night of sorts with a few writers and even posted a blog I felt inspired to write the place started to bloom almost instantly. It wasn’t just me, it was others in our group. Coming in ic character to story tell, to bond and with exception to some trolling fighting newbies trying to prove themselves maybe? Offering an open environment to others to thrive there as well. Two bars opened, an Armory shop and new writers came out of their shells to give the place a shot.

      The group came to an end abruptly for different reasons and the closed exclusivity returned. All that progress went fleeting with it. It is sad and it has been a frustration of mine for years as to why. Why does it have to be that way? It is possible for this place to be that culture all the time even with those with less flexibility and skill? But how? What is a standard that can be placed to help nurture that thriving spirit of site welcomed inclusiveness? And that is when it dawned on me that people just don’t know what these rooms are meant for, what the purpose of a RP Chat room is. One can make a Wyatt Pad and write a story with no outside involvement. One go to a forum rp site and have more engagement but still more controlled with post being spaced out, replies not in real time. But why does one gravitate to rp chat and how does it differ from these other methods? It’s is world building in real time for better and for worse (worse being ic drama/conflict not ooc drama). The best chats do so building the world around them in it, bonding those in it. Not always so intimate and intermediate but in way you see a townie everyday you pass to work and know you’re part of a community.

      I still think it would work, if the majority would agree that RP chats including Otherverse are set for public engagement and world building (Excluding DM events). That the blatant lack of acknowledgement that the world and other people in it don’t exist only stunts the possibilities; then the ebbing would be less frequent and the bleak trend that has set over the years can still be reversed. Respect is key.

      I myself left OOC years ago and I can only say I have thrived because it. I know bonding out of character can be beneficial in some cases but in my experience it not only caused unnecessary turmoil but it brought nothing to the role play experience. Again I could never place it before but I am of the mind it is because of that same question. What is the goal in coming here? And so far it doesn’t seem to be for reasons this site came into existence. The reason most people do this form of hobby.

    • #71967

      I do apologize as well for making it look like I’m assuming anything. I try to make myself as clear as possible and there is of course the issue of missed nuance in writing at times that I don’t catch, so I will try to further explain and try to get clarification, thank you all for being patient with me.

      • #72283

        Thanks for being so willing to apologize Tearlach. I personally don’t think it’s out of the norm for anyone who’s been here a long time maybe not using these practices and sharing the same ideals I posted feeling a little attacked about this. If someone has easily been able to integrate and default to the current landscape and it might be hard to hear that many people who do not, or can not, are having issues with the current infrastructure. That number over the years keeps getting higher and higher from what I can see and it is in that lack of growth I write this topics to discuss. Not to attack one group but because I know how great this site has been, how it can be.

        I think with great writers of all styles discussing these topics of when to write where being the first thing I wanted to address then we can move on the “workshop” topics you mentioned before. I know there will be some stuck in their ways. Who actively laugh off my words, my practiced suggestions and options. I made these topics in this Forum and not a preachy blog before I’m not wanted to talk down, to simply impose this is what it should be and I am all perfect and correct. Forums offer usually an organization to discussion and encourage conversation more I think. I think the forums here could be improved upon to make the threads easier to read and understand but again, this place being rarely used no one could foresee the issue. Maybe after this topic it can be reviewed and reformatted.

        People can laugh, people can mock. I have tough skin and when you put your opinion on the internet you will get backlash and differences in opinions no matter what you say. But if I can give someone pause. If while laughing at my article in mockery but then writing later feels the desire to try a new method. If someone who has felt the way I have but thought they couldn’t speak up sees this and feels emboldened I am happy to keep this going.

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